Taking Action Against Scam Schools

To Michelle from Sandown

You stated you were referred by "unemployment" to the substandard training program. The unemployment locations are also called "Career One Stop Centers" in each state and they are in place thru the Workforce Investment Act of 1998, another revamp of 6 decades of job training programs. Many being scams. WIA is a nationwide job seeker and training seeker effort to get people back to work, especially dislocated workers but the law leaves loopholes vast enough for scams to operate even with the knowledge of state and federal officials I found.

Proprietary programs (non-college) are licensed and approved by each state allowing them to lure in unemployed individuals who hold ITA's (vouchers) and those who sign promissory notes. For example, in NH scam programs operate at the license and approval of postsecondary commission and workforce boards.

When prior students have filed complaints about being scammed at one program or another no punitive action is taken in NH. The vendor pays a license fee to postsecondary and that allows the federal funds to stream into these programs via voucher system. Fraud and deceptive advertising prevails. Its profits before students.

It is the MEDICAL BILLING AND CODING SPECIALIST/HIM PROGRAMS that are of concern. As a consumer solid rules to follow are: if the program does not have a direct (not just thru an instructor) vendor relationship with AAPC or AHIMA  and if the instructor is not PMCC certified by AAPC (or AHIMA) and if the ad says they are AAPC Certififed but no vender relationship exists, and if the curriculum has not been approved by the above organizations.........keep shopping. The scams can be very slick.

Join the dozens of individuals who have been scammed beyond belief in NH some having signed promissory notes and others utilizing pell grants (vouchers) who have had their complaints broomed at the state level. They are now contacting local consumer advocacy groups to have their voices heard. Many writing about their experiences in rip-off sites, in blogs and forums.  Contact: HCAudit@aol.com

The program you mentioned does not operate in NH but does operate in MA where regulations and oversite are strict. Have you contacted any MA state officials?

Yes any time you get money of any kind you should be careful with how you spend it. However everyone learns differntly and has differnt requirments. It does not matter if a school is post secondary or a university. The questions should be what can work for the student

First how regonized is the certification, more then one company certifies coders. I would suggest calling in your area and asking employeers what is their preference for certifcations no matter which program you sign up, Check job sites what are they asking for in a employees. Post secondary schools and colleges all have their place. for example a college program my be to long and expensive or require to many added courses.  I notice the author keeps stating how bad it is at a post secondary. However millions of people would not be returning to the schools if did not work and serve a purpose. I have taken many courses at both and have found that the post secondary are great at teaching what i need to for the job and the colleges are better at providing understanding of the theory. I read one posting the author used to teach the program her self I am curious where does she teach now and what is the program. I think it would be fair to compare her current progam to others. I also think many people prefer classroom training instead of online. my point is we all have our opionions, so do your homework with the employeers.

I fell into a school who made many promises and I found out after the fact that they were not an accredited school. I now have a 3000.00 loan and need to repeat my schooling through an accredited progam. I have been told that the schooling that I put my time and money into was worthless. Who takes responsibility for this. The thing that I do not understand is that I attended this school through an unemployment progam.  How could they not know this ? And what about the Sallie Mae loan ?

Isnt this something they should look into, or is it all just a money thing ?

We are grateful to Michele for relegating the abuser with aliases to the sidelines.

Al/Jim/Lee enlightened us with his March 10th comments related to “following” Michele’s every move within the NH Employment Security/Training network and House Bill Testimony. The rights to privacy for the unemployed utilizing the NHES system exist and are protected under RSA91A. Any “eligible” NH Postsecondary training provider/owner would know this as it is a mandatory compliance feature found on applications filed with Workforce Opportunity Council. It was disturbing reading the verbal abuse directed toward her for simply sharing her experiences and deciding on a program offered by AAPC. She certainly deserves an apology.

The difficulty in securing industry recognized medical coding and billing training in this State has revolved around several factors. House Bill 1331, welfare reform, mandates job training attendance for welfare recipients so they may continue receiving welfare benefits. Professionals who are between positions and seeking training as Michele was are sent to the same programs, the only ones on “the list” to choose from licensed by NH Postsecondary Commission.

Senate Bill 173 prevents the use of Individual Training Account vouchers (your own tax dollars) spent on programs not on “the list”. Recognized professional organizations that do prepare and qualify individuals for employment, according to SB173 do not qualify as a postsecondary training program. For example, if you do not select a program from “the list” you cannot turn directly to AAPC or AHIMA for training which would place you favorably in the eyes of a potential employer.  

Whether you are an entry level or above individual wanting training from an AAPC approved curriculum with PPMC licensed instructors or thru AHIMA, you cannot utilize your Individual Training Account Voucher. Getting on the “A” list must be done at your own expense. By refusing the Postsecondary licensed choices people like Michele are penalized, forfeiting the 4,000.00 ITA then reaching deep into her pocket to pay for training preferred by hiring managers.

Good news as of recent is that certification for medical coding thru AAPC and AHIMA is now recognized by the U.S. Department of Labor. http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos103.htm

A good sign that voices from the healthcare community are being heard.

The consumer will now be asking a new series of questions when selecting a medical coding and billing training program. DOL is one of the departments directly related to Workforce Development from which federal grants are funneled. If the DOL recognizes the certifications then one would think ITA’s and other federal funding would be used for entry level and above for those preferring AAPC curriculum approved or AHIMA training to obtain and retain gainful employment.

It pays to choose wisely.

I'm glad that Michelle has taken a stand and I'm sure it was her having valid credentials that has opened the necessary doors for her. I will be finishing school soon and then looking forward to taking the RHIA exam.

Many employers won't even consider you for a job if you don't possess the credentials deemed necessary for the it. In other words, if you don't have it, no interview, period.

In this state alone, there has been an influx of schools promoting programs to support the fastest medical growing careers, but these programs actually lack appropriate accreditation. So, they are basically wasting people's time and stealing money in an healthcare industry already strapped for qualified workers.

This should be stopped and it will take the policy makers to take notice and stop it.

I live in NH and I have had my fair share of dealing with the NH Post Secondary 'brooming' and failiing to make the member schools accountable for their policies and their actions. My question actually takes this a bit further, Why can't the professional associations involved with coding certify curriculums for coding programs? Many other health care fields do so through JCERT which accredits radiography programs, and such. We have JHACO who certifies hospitals. Why can't we have a body comprised of all the professional coding associations certify coding programs. Maybe we do, and I as  an individual who is entering the field just missed the fact. I am thankful to Joanna Gryzwacz for pursuing this matter, if enough of us stand up and demand that states, education boards hold thier post secondary schools accountable for thier actions then we might very well see results.

In my post of 03-09-08, I shared my experience of suddenly becoming unemployed and the steps I took to redirect my career, find the appropriate training and ultimately secure employment in the medical coding field.   THE VERBAL ASSAULT THAT FOLLOWED FROM JIM/LEE WAS UNCALLED FOR AND TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!   One has to wonder about the motivation behind ”Jim/Lee”, whom I have never met, disputing my own very personal experiences which he obviously knows nothing about????  The purpose of this blog is not to attack the posters so please leave me out of any or your future posts.

During my job search, I found that all advertised medical coding, NOT MEDICAL BILLING positions required 2-5 years experience in addition to an AHIMA or AAPC certification.  Several people also testified to this fact at the hearing for HB1211, while there were only two from postsecondary schools opposing this bill.   The State may not mandate certification but as I found out during my research, employers do.

It was my NHES counselor who convinced me to apply for a State grant to help fund my training. Since I took this very seriously, I spent time researching medical coding training and preparing a list of questions to ask when interviewing the 4 State approved career training schools, given me to pick from.  AND YES I DID INTERVIEW ALL 4 SCHOOLS, two by phone and two in person!!   Once the interviews were done, while feeling stressed, confused and pressured to choose a school quickly, I contacted several people, one of them being Johnna Grzywacz.  

I had every intention of using the state grant money I was entitled to, if approved, to fund my training.  Only one of the 4 schools offered training that led to a possible AAPC certification, as I testified at the HB1211 hearing. Unfortunately, this school would have also cost $8,000 on top of the state grant amount.  I could not justify spending that amount of money out of my pocket or the State’s on a program which included unnecessary courses and no flexibility to take only the courses needed.

Johnna Grzywacz did not send me through the NHES system as Jim/Lee states in his post.  I did not promote my success in securing a job solely on my connection with the AAPC.  My post says the fact that I was enrolled in an AAPC program was a “positive point in their eyes”.   As I read through all the posts, there is not one mention of a particular school or company, only of nationwide problems.  Since Jim/Lee says it is important for the readers to learn the truth, maybe its time he tells us who he is since he seems to be the one with the personal agenda!!

It seems to me after looking again at these blogs that the owners of these schools are posting comments to support their position.  My experience at one of these schools was a dismal failure.  I invite people to beware and check out the schools they are planning to attend VERY carefully.  It is apparent to me that these schools seek to prey on victims with low self esteem to exploit them for profit.  I ask where is your accountability to deliver a quality education that will enable people to secure positions in the medical coding field.  It seems that the attacks/responses are all about preserving you and your profitable business.  

Since I already used the school and my allotted $4000 from the state I am no longer eligible to obtain re-training thru the WIA.  So where does that leave me and others to turn when that happens?

I would like to day Hat's Off to the  "Owner of a Postsecondary school"  Why is none of the success stories told from these people.  For every bad story there is atleast one good story.  From my experience, which has not been that long, everyone wants experience and schooling to get into the Medical Billing field.  I am very thankful for the schooling I got from a postsecondary school.  Not only did I get a good education, they made it very comforting for me to learn even though i had been out of school over 25 years.  The classes were small enough to give everyone as much time as they needed.  Hats off you anyone (school) that could help me change my job fiels after 21 years and a few medical issues.%0d%0aHOLLY

Michelle:

Congrads to you for securing a position!  

What I find interesting in your posting is that you promote your success in securing this "job" solely on the fact of your connection with the AAPC.  

LET'S BE REALISTIC!!  

In the State of New Hampshire,  as in many states across the United States, ONE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED WITH ANY CREDENTIALING BODIES to work as a medical coder.  One does not have to have any formal training to work as a medical coder and there are those physicians and other outsourcing agencies that like to"TRAIN THEIR OWN".

Additionally, I find it interesting how you elevate this woman's words as " GOSPEL".  If she preaches to investigate, then perhaps it would have been "WISE" for you to have investigated and fully understood all, including the motivations of the speaker before "your condemnation " of "the school".

Finally, I find it interesting that you did not let the readers of your posting know of your educational background nor your professional employment history in the medical field which in reality was the "real" reason for their interest in you as a candidate!

This readers is what I mean when I say that it is important to learn the truth!

Michelle,

Congratulations on securing a job however I find your participation at the legislation session on HB1211 quite a coincidence. It is very obvious you “drank the Kool-aid”. When you were sent to NHES by your “mentor” you made it clear you wanted an AAPC class and agreed to see three vendors. What I find even more interesting is that you phone interviewed one vendor, didn’t bother the other, (who is an AAPC program and I am told you testified to legislation that they didn’t offer you a school offering an AAPC program), and you physically visited one school, the one your “mentor” continues to attack.  My research tells me that your whole attempt working through the NHES system was a scam choreographed again by your “mentor” As a matter of fact I was told that once your interview was over at that one school they all knew who sent you and low and behold there you are sitting next to her at the legislation meeting, it couldn’t have been any more obvious! I truly don’t believe you didn’t forfeit anything as you never intended on using it to begin with. That exercise was a total waist of tax payer’s dollars.  

WIA, VR, and TAA grants are tremendous programs that offer the unemployed and underemployed workers the chance to better them selves with programs available to them. I can tell you first hand how gratifying it is to see and work with new enrollee’s. Often times they come in with low self esteem who may not think they can go back to school. To watch their transformation from beginning to end is very rewarding especially when we receive the excited call that they secured a job and how happy they are. We have letters upon letters that show this excitement. If you look beyond the negative press ONE spews about he WIA and the Postsecondary there is a lot of success they “CHOOSE” not to talk about.  

Maybe people should do some homework prior to posting as the Feds, (WIA), do monitor and audit local WOC offices for the success of all programs monies are going to. And if they notice monies going to programs that are not successful, action IS taken.  

It would seem to me that the government had better get its act together about who it gives money to for these programs. They need to monitor them for success before giving them any more money.

WIA is perhaps not the great idea Reich thought it was.

A couple years ago, while contemplating a career change, I attended a workshop entitled "Exploring a Career in Medical Coding", with several others also interested in the field.  When I found my self suddenly unemployed last year, it seemed like the perfect time to make the change.  I dug out all the info given at this workshop including websites to use as resources.  I constructed a checklist after reviewing this info, to use as a tool to help me decide which programs and certifications would meet my needs.  No specific programs were mentioned at this workshop, only help with the career path.  It was Johnna Gryzywacz that led the workshop I found valuable.

I was one of the many who testified before the Department of Educaion on behalf of HB 1211 in January of this year.  My testimony is documented on file.  My recent experiences with Employment Security Counselors and my interviews with the recommended training programs led to some major concerns worth bringing to light.  In my opinion, the State and Federal Officials need to make all certification programs available to choose from.  We should be able to decide how to spend our own State grants on training we know will serve us well in attaining employment.  The counselors knew nothing about the medical coding field.  Many of the training providers were most concerned about whether my funding was coming from the State.  I shudder to think of the many unemployed who do not question prospective training providers because they were recommended and licensed by the State.

I have since secured a position with a major billing and practice management company in NH.  The fact I am enrolled in an AAPC program was a positive point in their eyes.  I chose not to attend any of the State licensed training programs, forfeiting the State grant money I was entitled to, in order to attain the training that appeals to employers.  Thank-you Johnna for opening my eyes and giving me the resources I needed to enter the medical coding field.

For those of you that are unaware:

The coding credentialing bodies that are so highly promoted by Ms. Grzywacz as the end all, the ultimate and the only recognized credentials in the world of coding require absolutely "NO" coding experience or formal educational training to sit for either the AHIMA's CCA or the AAPC's CPC-A.  

Is she "trashing her own credentials?  Where is the accountability of these organizations as she is so fond of stating?  What happens to those candidates that pay to "sit" for these exams based on what AHIMA and AAPC states as "no experience or formal educational training needed" and don't pass the exam?  Does either credentialing bodies provide the non-passing candidate a money back guarantee if they don't pass?  I think not!

And what if after expending several thousand ofdollars in purchasing their study programs (ISP od AAPC) you discover that "CODING" is not your "CUP OF TEA"?  Do you have any other educational skill base to fall back on?  

Well, YOU would if you attended the technical training school she sees as her life's mission to discredit in whatever format that she can get others to listen to her twisted perspective.

We, as professionals, have learned through our experiences that must believe only a portion of what we see, hear, taste, smell and touch.  We must investigate all sides to any story and know that as Muldur would say "The Truth Is Out There"!  Let's all discover the truth and put an end to this unprofessional, unethical behavior!

Regarding the recent discussion here on this blog, I wanted to take the opportunity to step in and remind posters of our guidelines.

We have a “statement” in our terms and conditions: “GUIDELINES FOR DISCUSSIONS. Merion Publications Inc., welcomes your participation in article and blog comment threads and other discussion forums. It is a place to share ideas with your peers. Merion Publications Inc. is not responsible for the validity of materials presented on this site. We also reserve the right to remove any content that we consider to be inappropriate or offensive. By using this service, you agree to be bound by these guidelines.”

Our blog community is not monitored and we do not discourage opposing viewpoints. However, entries including ethnic, racial or social slurs, profanity, threatening remarks or personal attacks will not be published, so voice your comments, suggestions and opinions in a respectful manner. Posts containing inappropriate solicitation will also be removed.

I invite the poster who was deleted to repost his/her comments without the personal attacks against Ms. Grzywacz.

Lisa A. Algeo, editor

People for the Truth and Amy

I, too, am outraged by the site's "lack of" journalist integrity to hear the "truth"!  Way to go Amy!  Although I am sorry to hear of others' misfortunes as they relate to their educational experiences, I am "sick" of reading this woman's twisted perspective,  of being "forced" to witness her ongoing promotion of her personal agenda--- to elevate herself above us, among other things and of having to "read" her continuous "rantings and ravings" to discredit "one technical training school".

People, wake up and see this woman as she truly is, Amy sure did!  It's too bad that the author and the monitors have "no backbone" to see and to hear the truth and decided to take down Amy's blog!  As the "expert" of the article, this woman has opened the door to others who disagree with her or to those who "know" her motives!  Did she brainwash you, too, Advance Perspective's three?

We all need to speak out against such ludicrous, unprofessional behavior performed by a woman who can't even keep her credentials straight!

I revisited this blog today to address Ann’s entry of yesterday only to find out it had been taken down. Although it did get quite personal it is a shame just the same as some times the raw truth hurts and Ann was 100% truthful in her remarks. Actually she was quite kind as there is a lot more add to her story.

It is a shame this is a partisan blog and only wants the few readers it has to see only one twisted, misguided side to ones story.

The full truth will be heard!  

Elizabeth, thank you for your comment.

It is a nationwide issue that many States will come to resolve. For example, New Jersey is currently developing a new allied health professions program in the Community Colleges in two of their counties. Manchester NH will soon have a HIM/HIT degree program within the Community College. There is accountability and standards thru a college system and they will be prepared to meet the needs of employers, hospitals, and physicians. With the arrival of EMR and full implementation of ICD-10 approaching soon, just to name a few, it is necessary for any training programs to rise to the level of the current industry need.

No doubt some job training providers not affiliated with AHIMA or AAPC will fall out of favor in this industry's ambitious climate.  Buyer beware strategies firmly in place can not be understated.

I would like to write about my experience with these type of schools. I feel like my story is worth hearing.  signed up and took a 2-yr. program through the computer and from home. I also paid quite a bit of money for my schooling , computer , books , etc. I had the impression that when I finished my course, I would be ready to start work from home right away . But , that is not the case. I finished my schooling in 03 and am still looking to get my foot in the door , so to speak. These types of schools shouldn't be allowed to deceive and mislead honest people trying to get into the field. It just isn't right. I am pleased to see that someone is taking these schools on .%0d%0a%0d%0a%0d%0a

Following the introduction of House Bill 1211 by State Representative Nancy Elliott the testifying began before the State of NH Department of Education Committee.

Two hours of testimony was heard from various individuals in the healthcare field; Susan Carbone, MBA, CPC, MCS-P, a compliance auditor for a local health system, Ellen Wallpe, CPC, General Surgery Practice Manager in Dover, NH, prior students and instructors of training programs as well as Michele Becker, a Histotechnologist who testified how she was steered by Manchester Career One Stop employment counselors to welfare reform (HB1331) programs as the only means to gain access to medical coding/billing training. The list of choices contained non-college options licensed/approved by the Postsecondary Education Commission. She stated “after interviewing these program I found they would not enable me to meet employer’s criteria and I was forced to forfeit my $4,000 grant in lieu of purchasing coursework directly thru AAPC for $2,000, increasing my chances for re-employment.”

Michele named the Postsecondary licensed/approved programs in which she found instructors with no working experience of medical coding or billing, no industry recognized certification, and one program the counselor stated “we have been trying to get that school off the approved list for years.” The coursework of all programs offered had no approval by AAPC or AHIMA and another program entitled “Medical Coding and Billing Specialist” would not provide students their own coding classification manuals in the program costing $4,000. It had no advisory board, accreditation or affiliation with AAPC or AHIMA. She stated “When I asked which programs were good I was told by the counselors that they could not make recommendations but I would tell by the order in which they handed me the brochures.” In closing she stated she was thankful not to have been lured into an inappropriate training program as others have.

Susan Carbone and Ellen Wallpe commented on what physicians require of those looking to land positions within the revenue cycle. Coders and billers are investments to healthcare facilities and they are required to query physicians to clarify patient procedures as well as educate them on current coding regulations.

This poses a concern for enrollees of short term proprietary programs who are led to believe that a certificate of attendance and a little hope would rapidly land them these positions. “I would not hire an individual with short term training and place them in a coding or billing position in my practice” stated Ellen Wallpe. “Our physicians require credentials and training from AAPC or AHIMA.” Susan Carbone spoke of the risks to physicians in placing unqualified persons in those positions. She suggested “before anyone enrolls into training programs to check job boards for requirements.”

The job training industry has given some students unprecedented access to higher education and career boosting stories are remarkable. All too often, however, this is not the case. It is necessary to pull back the curtain to reveal the reality within these state approved programs as it warrants discussion for improvements and actual oversight.  

The Postsecondary Licensing and Approval Administrator of these programs testified before the committee stating “I just don’t have time to look into these issues.” Other serious current complaints were filed with Postsecondary regarding government sponsored training programs. They remain without resolution. There are fewer than 10 licensed proprietary coding and billing programs in the state not affiliated with AAPC or AHIMA.

Two training providers testified in opposition of HB1211 stating oversight was not needed and it was unnecessary for the public to be provided with unbiased statistics on employment following training, as the Bill requests.

Millions of dollars flood this state annually to support training and employment efforts for dislocated workers or any individual seeking training leading to gainful employment, the goal of the Workforce Investment Act (WIA). Absence of oversight remains an issue in short term proprietary programs that stand in disconnect to industry needs and that are licensed repeatedly.

The question remains why college courses and coursework approved by AAPC or AHIMA are absent as choices from the Career One Stop government sponsored “list” where training seekers like Michele Becker looked to meet employer requirements. She stated she was prevented from utilizing her “voucher” to purchase preferred training which would further her career and allow her to compete.

The US Government Accountability Office (GAO) June 2005 issue, “Workforce Investment Act: Substantial Funds Are Used for Training, but Little is Known Nationally about Training Outcomes” report states “questions have been raised about how WIA funds are being used.” WIA was created to connect any individual to education and training services to better match job seekers to labor market needs.

We thank our three State Representative, Nancy Elliott, Maureen Mooney and Edith Hogan for their time and attention to HB1211.  According to Nancy Elliott, “The purpose of the bill is to ensure adequate training that will meet industry standards and lead to employability for graduates of these programs. It is an important accountability issue."

I would just like to say, that the education I got from my school was instrumental in getting a job in a medical office.  The biller I work with has said that the Billing computer program that the school used was a much better and eaiser program to use.  I know that all of my class is workingin some kind of medical job.  Without this program most of us would never of gotten where we are.

I know that I can never thank them enough for helping me.

Holly

CHC Director,

I applaud your ability to have secured a position in Marketing after attending a post-secondary career school.  Not all post-secondary career schools are scammers.  That being said - this particular school that is promoting medical coding and billing as a means to obtaining a position in a health care environment IS definitely scamming the public.  One cannot obtain a position in a hospital or doctor's office with what this school teaches.  

My personal experience with this school was 2 1/2 years later they sent me a certificate of completion for the Medical Coding and Billing Course - I dropped out of the course 4 weeks before it ended.  In addition, there was sexual harrassement going on and even after I left the school and was working that was still pursued by one  of the owners which I personally experienced.   When complaints were filed with the Post-Secondary Ed department they were ignored.  

$4000 of tax payer money went down the drain - and I no longer qualify for retraining.  It's a one time grant.  Since I was steered by unemployment to this school and they were unable to give me the skills, training, and adequate course work to be accepted into the health care community - it is a scam!  These career schools will not prepare you for the National Exam nor does AHIMA recognize them.

Johnna Grzywacz is only trying to protect the unsuspecting public and our tax payer dollars.  I congratulate her on all of her efforts.   Many unsuspecting women (myself included) were lured into this course with the promise of new jobs in a growing field.  This did not happen.

I am a successful graduate of a Post-Secondary Career School. It was paid for by taxpayer dollars after I was disabled and unable to continue my previous line of work. I have worked successfully in the industry for which I trained. I have since contributed a fair amount of my own tax dollars to the system. I am glad to see those dollars going to help others get some job training to lift them out of what is too often a cycle of poverty.

I know Ms. Grzywacz and many of the parties in this dispute, including students and instructors in the school. I have talked to many of the players, including Ms. Grzywacz, looked into her complaints and find her passion is misplaced. Anyone who hears her talk knows she is feels strongly about this subject – but don’t mistake passion for truth!

Her crusade began rather suddenly after she learned that her unfortunate decision to overlap her personal life with her professional life wasn’t going to work out. Up until this point, she was content as a paid instructor in the very program she now derides. This abrupt about-face and her relentless campaign to topple this company indicate a very personal and emotional motivation. Although she is extremely articulate and hailed by some as a hero, her obsession for personal revenge is distorting the facts, We should not allow a personal vendetta to harm programs that help thousands of individuals each year become valued members of society and, not incidentally, taxpayers.

Ms. Grzywacz's complaint is without merit on numerous levels. All have been investigated over the years by various state and federal organizations, who look closely and impartially at all sides of the situation. They examine marketing materials, curriculum and textbooks. They talk not only to students and instructors, but also experts in the professional field. Over the course of several years, they have been unable to find grounds for her many accusations. I suppose it is possible that all of these people and agencies are conspiring to give money to the bad guys and sweeping this under the rug, It is far more likely that Ms. Grzywacz is in a war of her own making, charging with Don Quixote at ferocious monsters that the rest of us simply see as windmills.

Kate, if you are looking for an on-line course for "Coding" may I suggest the AAPC. Below is a link to their education part of there site. that would be your best starting point

http://www.aapc.com/education/learn-medical-billing-coding-online.aspx

Yes I've been out of school this may will be two years I did my studies online in the Medical Billing & Coding I don't know if the school I went to was in this scamming business our not but they did try and help me but the first on one I to in the same field they didn't . I didn't get a job in the field either. Still hoping though.  Phillis

As someone who is looking at changing over to medical coding once I retire in six months and presently looking at these on-line courses, I am very, very interested to know from "Students for Higher Ed" which program she is referring to.  Essentially, I have a sinking feeling it is the same program I was about to sign up for and want to know for sure before I pay that much money for something that will not enable me to start a post-retirement career.

The Postsecondary commission is fully funded by the fee’s paid by the licensed schools. It’s not the fact that “some associated with Private Postsecondary career schools are upset” as much as it’s seen as a duplication of processes and a waist of resources. Allow me to explain.

If you are a new school your curriculum, teachers, outlines, length of program, location, student / employee handbook, business plan and more are reviewed and scrutinized before an approval to operate is granted.

If you are an existing school you have gone through that process. When you add new programs they must be approved prior to bringing them to market. Again Curriculum, teachers, outlines, length of program are all looked at prior to approval.

Finally at re-licensing if you have added new teachers and made alterations to any existing program the same information must be submitted and approval granted. Along with financials to prove fiscal stability, surety bonds, with other proof’s of insurance.

So as you can see this process is being done on a regular business through out the year as apposed to an annual review. With 75 licensed schools and thousands of programs / classes it would be quite an undertaking for a commission of two.

The Commissions time is more valuable going after the schools operating un-licensed which in many cases are not paying state business taxes like the licensed schools!!!  Also following up on complaints both legitimate and unfortunately wasting time and tax payers dollars chasing the BOGUS ones,!!! The bill is redundant and a waist of time.

I find it interesting that some associated with private postsecondary career schools are upset with this simple addition to current NH law which provides the same oversight for other schools.

New language as follows:

"II. The postsecondary education commission shall annually review and require revisions, as necessary, to the curriculum of a licensed private postsecondary career school to ensure that the education and associated training offered for employment in a particular industry is, at a minimum, adequate to qualify a student for entry-level employment in such industry. "

But then there must have been similar problems with lack of accountability and quality in some past schools to have spurred the NH Legislature to create RSA 188 in the first place.

The questionable actions of a few seem to have us constantly updating laws designed to protect citizens and tax dollars. I hope the bill passes, as it should. The Reps. sponsoring it are some of the best we have.

Not all schools 'like this" have teachers that are or who have not been a Medical Coder or Biller.  I know that my medical teachers in my program all had exerience.  So you may find one now in then that has no experience, but don't generalize all schools.  I am working with the biller in my office and I understand what is going on.  I would not have if I hadn't had the program.  With the lack of money, I am very please with my job.  I was never promised job placement or help nor did I expect it.  I know one teacher actually offer help with any of her students who needed help with a resume on her own time.  Please don't put all of the schools in one catergory.  One bad experience can't be held against everyone.

Students for Higher Ed, how presumptuous of you to assume identity!! If you are who you say you are I suggest you call who is in charge of the school and discuss the issues with them and see what your options are to correct a wrong if any exists.

With all due respect “AL” we are students currently attending your licensed training school. We signed up for the Medical Coding/Billing Specialist courses to now find that the instructor has NO coding/billing experience or certification. A prior student of this program she is now an instructor of the courses.

Now we know why getting hired will be near impossible. $4,000.00 later we have been fleeced. Had you told us up front that you have no qualified instructors we would have made other choices. Your comment on the blog states Postsecondary Commission helps consumers. This program is on their recommended list.

This Bill should pass to help people like us.

Id like to share a brief story relating to these so called educational institutes that "promise" job placement and "quick quality education":%0d%0a%0d%0aI was an adjunct instructor teaching a number a different class subjects in a school where tax dollars were supporting individuals to advance there training.  In order for the school to keep teachers, student enrollment was critical.  In order for the school to live up to their promise of quick jobs, I was told to give a student whom was failing my class a better grade on a test than had been earned as to retain the number of enrolled students! ( $ tax  had already been paid to the school with the rest to be paid upon students completion.) After refusing to sign for this students academic and clinical  competence, I was accused of insubordination and in turn resigned my position of teaching.  What happened to the student?  Well, the student finished the program but but was not properly educated to be able to sit for the certification test to obtain certification. Leaving the student with no job and the tax money wasted. WHAT A RIP OFF and WHAT ABOUT QUALITY CARE TO PATIENTS! Something needs to be done about this scam.

Kevin “as you refer to yourself” are absolutely correct with your comment about the “Reader’s Digest ads stating “make $40,000.00 a year working from home” Those are the programs people and legislation should be setting their sites on along with schools in operation who are not properly licensed in their state. Those are the TRUE scams! There is no governing body the consumer can turn to after they send in their money to those programs.  At least with College’s, University’s, State Schools, Tech Schools, and Poststsecondary Career Schools there is a place for the consumer to go to. That would be the Dept. of Education and the Postsecondary commission.

I also agree with your statement “institutions properly educated the students on how to make a solid first impression, Resume writing skills” there are such programs in higher academia as well as the career school level however I don’t know of any institution that then follows the student around to ensure they are doing and saying all the right things to get the job. There isn’t a College, University, State School, Tech School, or Poststsecondary Career School that can boast 100% placement. I am not saying the institutions are not striving for that statistic however it is reality. So although you do bring up some good points I have to agree with what Dee had to say in her submission.

The Workforce Investment Act (WIA) is the driving force behind these job training programs you will encounter in every industry including HIM/HIT. WIA is the nationwide job seeker and training effort designed to assist any individual seeking training or employment thru Career One Stop Centers located in every state.

WIA is one of many legislative reforms since the inception of job training programs more than six decades ago. The goal: better respond to the workforce development needs of businesses, jobseekers and provide the job skills necessary to obtain such employment opportunities. When goals and oversight are not accomplished by national, state, and local agencies that are to undertake efforts to facilitate collaborative activities, it leaves ample room to attract individuals or companies that dishonestly attempt to take advantage of the loopholes and/or directly violate the law to enrich themselves at the expense of the tax paying student.

The internet remains riddled with unsettling chronicles of medical coding and medical transcription training seekers scammed beyond belief. Those who found reality far from the sales pitch.

Evidence of improper training becomes apparent during the job interview. Hiring Managers report candidates being unfamiliar with “Modifiers” “CCI Edits” and not knowing the difference between ICD-9 and CPT codes, the mechanisms that drive reimbursement, statistical reporting and shield providers from OIG audits and jail time. A sure sign that even entry level training programs are not keeping place with employer needs leaving job candidates so far back in the pack with little chance to compete. While speed training is effective in some industries, medical coding is not one of them.

A wider perspective reveals that not only job seekers and the employers who are clamoring for well trained candidates are affected by the lack of oversight, performance measures and accountability of these programs. It becomes an issue for any consumer of healthcare.

In other professions, professional standardization has occurred thru legislation, collective lobbying, educational changes, public demand and media attention. For example: Uniformity exists in the nursing field focusing on responsibilities that pose a risk to patients if performed by unqualified persons. Although HIM/HIT personnel do not provide direct care, coding of diagnoses, procedures, and services can greatly impact subsequent treatment and or reimbursement decisions which directly affects patient care.

Johnna Grzywacz, CPC

NH

"Dee," as she refers to herself, underscores the responsibility of educators, educational institutions and marketing related to their programs.  Although quick to point out the speculated deficiencies of the students/prospective employees, notice that no mention is made of how these sorts of institutions properly educated the students on how to make a solid first impression, Resume writing skills, the reality of gaining job placement from the program and a host of other "professional development" efforts.

Personally, as I've stated prior on these forums, the schools should be held liable in every extent of the law.  Just look in Reader's Digest for the ads stating, "make $40,000 a year working from home."  This is a perfect example of how the lack of responsibility begin with predatory marketing, continues with misinformed recruiters and finally ends with unemployed alumni.

Medical coding training programs that advertise and promise industry standard courses to aspiring HIM professionals but don't deliver

I find this opening statement troubling:

It is unfortunate that Lynn Jusinski did not get the whole story of Ms. Grzywacz personal motivates for her tirade of misinformation nor did she investigate the claims made by Ms. Grzywacz before posting her article of this "hot topic".  

An introductory understanding of coding concepts is needed for any health care professional to understand the reimbursement process.  These schools offer introductory coding concepts in their billing programs, as does the American Academy of Professional Coder's Medical Billing and Reimbursement e-learning program, to enhance the learning and the understanding of the reimbursement process.  

As it relates to "finding" jobs, it is a rare person who can state that they received a job offer with the first application or resume they submitted.  One must accept many rejections and be persistent in their quest before they are rewarded with a job offer.  Additionally, one thing that we must all accept, there are times when the elusive job offer is not due to the educational process but are due to the first impression made by the applicant either in person or on paper.  It then becomes responsibility of the applicant to do their homework and see how they can improve their professional presentation.

I would lke to say that I went to the same kind of school,  and I would not exchange my education for anything.  I am workingin a Medical office and am quite happy.  Did anyone think tht you can't get a job more to the lack of experience.I sentout many resumes and 90% of the reason they could/wouldn't hire me is the lack of experience.  Most places want 2/3 years experience.

Anyone whop thought they would walk in to a perfect job is not being realistic.  I knew going into this was going to take time.  

Hopefully that bill won't get through.

Holly

I think this bill would be a huge benefit to people trying to make an honest effort to become successful in the working world.  It would actually allow them a usable education.  I had attended a Secretarial School in the 90's and when I was finished, because I had not received State assistance, I was "pushed to the side" when it came to applying for jobs.  At that time, schools would not be paid for their students completion by the state until that unemployed person was placed in a job.  What a waste.  I never used that schooling experience,  I think I benefited more from my High School typing class.  Way to go Johnna.

I was also scammed by this school (with the assistance of employment security).  When I appeared in HR offices at hospitals I was politely laughed at and told that since the school was not certified and they had never heard of it that they would not accept the certificate.  I am once again unemployed and now cannot receive another state assistance grant for different training.  I felt I was steered to this school due to the limited time left on my unemployment benefit.  A few weeks into the classes it became apparent to me that there was MUCH to learn and I began to question how one could be trained properly to perform this work from what I now term a 16-week wonder school!  PLEASE pass this bill to stop the scamming of the unsuspecting public and wasting tax dollars that could be used to train people for REAL jobs in the medical field.

Thank you Jhonna Grzywacz for taking up this issue.

How unfair and wastefull is it to make the people who are paying for this tax supported program, as well as those taking the courses, think they are helping people find employment when in fact not many people wind up employed at the type of job offered, or at the pay scale promised.

Our organization, The Coalition of NH Taxpayers, had Johanna on our radio program to talk about this federal program and in the five and a half years we have been on the air it is the first time we have received veiled threats from an organization or political entity involved in an issue we featured.

Johnna Grzywacz calmly offered offered detailed, documented evidence of waste and abuse in this type of training program and instantly we had an angry response from one of the facilities here in NH. Not much in the way of a logical defence or counter to her statements came from the other side. This is always a sign that there is a problem.

Taxpayers should ask their representatives if it isn't time we had some serious oversight into training programs that seem to be nothing more than a residential, two car garage turned into a federally funded diploma mill.  

We hope to have her on our show again and thank her for the binder of materials she offered to CNHT for our issues library.

I was scammed by this same school.  We were assured that the classes we were taken would gaurantee a job placement.  Everytime I went on an interview they did not even want to see my certificates it was like they meant nothing.  The classes presented to us was suppose to certify us as a Medical Secretary Expert Track.  What was that????   What a waste of State money and a waste of my valuable time when I could have been taken classes that would have enhanced my career.  Hurry up and pass the bill to fix this issue.