Some Nurses in Canada Oppose Physician Assistants

Hey. Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there.

I am from Morocco and now study English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Beyond that, it tests other that the first stability is demanding and well stopped, but only also."

Thank :o Nani.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

During  Vietnam, MDs realized the abilities of Navy Corpsman to handle issues that nurses could not. That was the origin of the Duke program.

Everyday I open the human body with a scapel or place a catheter in their heart. The veins or arteries I harvest keep that patient alive for years. My hands have been trained by the pioneers of Heart Surgery-Dr. Kirklin and Starr.

In 22 years I've had no malpractice issues.

Cowboys thought Henry Ford was an idiot too.

Grinspun, wake up and smell the roses.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

During  Vietnam, MD's realized the abilities of Navy Corpsman to handle issues that nurses could not. That was the origin of the Duke program.

Everyday I open the human body with a scapel or place a catheter in their heart. The veins or arteries I harvest keep that patient alive for years. My hands have been trained by the pioneers of Heart Surgery-Dr. Kirklin and Starr.

In 22 years I've had no malpractice issues.

Cowboys thought Henry Ford was an idiot too.

Grinspun, wake up and smell the roses.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

During  Vietnam, MDs realized the abilities of Navy Corpsman to handle issues that nurses could not. That was the origin of the Duke program.

Everyday I open the human body with a scapel or place a catheter in their heart. The veins or arteries I harvest keep that patient alive for years. My hands have been trained by the pioneers of Heart Surgery-Dr. Kirklin and Starr.

In 22 years I've had no malpractice issues.

Cowboys thought Henry Ford was an idiot too.

Grinspun, wake up and smell the roses.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

During  Vietnam, MDs realized the abilities of Navy Corpsman to handle issues that nurses could not. That was the origin of the Duke program.

Everyday I open the human body with a scapel or place a catheter in their heart. The veins or arteries I harvest keep that patient alive for years. My hands have been trained by the pioneers of Heart Surgery-Dr. Kirklin and Starr.

In 22 years I've had no malpractice issues.

Cowboys thought Henry Ford was an idiot too.

Grinspun, wake up and smell the roses.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

During  Vietnam, MD's realized the abilities of Navy Corpsman to handle issues that nurses could not. That was the origin of the Duke program.

Everyday I open the human body with a scapel or place a catheter in their heart. The veins or arteries I harvest keep that patient alive for years. My hands have been trained by the pioneers of Heart Surgery-Drs. Kirklin and Starr.

In 22 years I've had no malpractice issues.

Cowboys thought Henry Ford was an idiot too.

Ms. Grinspun, wake up and smell the roses.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there are thousands of patients who have not access to the quality health care they need.  And so that quality health care needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which medical providers should be aligning their professions.  I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  

And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  

Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the medical professions who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail.  For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG.  It is how medical providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Health care providers need to set aside their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there as thousands of patients who are not getting the care they need.  And so that care that is needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which health care providers should be aligning their professions.  

I can clearly see how and would promote Canadian PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."  Now as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another.

For who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  

As for the Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  

Canadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the professions those who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail. For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG. It is how health care providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.

They the nursing professions need to lay down their territorial posturing and wake up to the fact there as thousands of patients who are not getting the care they need. %0d%0a%0d%0aAnd so that care that is needed is to put aside the territorial posturing, comprehend one another's roles not singularly promoting your own role but that of the teams as the greater ideal of the healing process to which health care providers should be aligning their professions. %0d%0a%0d%0aI can clearly see how and would promote PAs and their benefit to Canadian health care.  And for this healing to take place peace must be made with one another and for peace itself as Einstein wrote " Cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding." %0d%0a%0d%0aNow as for Grinspun is a politician what did you expect, she stands for nurses and so must also have the courage to bear their weakness, as would any of those who take the podium to speak on behalf of another. %0d%0a%0d%0aFor who of any us are so virtuous to claim we have the right to judge another profession solely by their vices, as if we have no vice?  %0d%0a%0d%0aAs for the Canadian health care, I agree health care providers need to stop marking their territory, sniping at each other and start being a team because it should not be the profession to shine, but the greater light of Canadian healthcare. The overall game the whole team plays and it the Canadian system should be the true nature by which each profession should be guided, not how they hold the light for it or are the writers of its oaths.  %0d%0a%0d%0aCanadian health care, the healing process and as a scientific goal needs to be the star and the professions those who work the ships in the waters of a life we all sail. For healing is not only how PAs cut with a knife, give out a pill, or read an ECG. It is how health care providers hold close together the light of human dignity respect and compassion written beyond education, gender, and role.%0d%0aThanks

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

"The group said Ontario should be training more nurse practitioners instead, because they are better educated and have more autonomy than physician assistants. "  

Nurse Practitioners are trained differently from PA's, however I would not say better trained. In the US, NP's are trained under a Nursing Model and licensed by the state board of Nursing.  They are required to have a Master's Degree.  PA's are now required to have a Master's degree as well (unless they have been grandfathered in) and are trained under the Medical Model (the same model used to train MD's).  PA's are licensed by the state medical board (the same agency that licenses MD's).  Additional autonomy is granted by the board that licenses you, whether you are an NP or a PA.

"Physician assistants will have to turn to nurses or call physicians to act on medical directives when a patient's situation changes, said Doris Grinspun, executive director of the RNAO. "

I am a PA and have never had to turn to a nurse for any information except the same type of information and MD would ask of him/her.  As for MD consultation, i work closely with the MD as does an NP, however, I do not need his permission to deal with a change in the patient's condition.  I am only required to keep him updated. NP's have this same requirement. As for surgical procedures, PA's do perform many surgical procedures with and without direct Physician supervision.  However, before they are allowed to do so, there is a training period in the specific procedure that will be performed and the PA must be observed by and approved for the procedure by our supervising Physicianprior to being allowed to just "go nuts" with an #11 blade.  Here in america, I work with many NP's and PA's alike and we are all on equal ground.  We all have mutual respect for each other and our professions and the rivalry is limited if it exists at all.  For Grinspun to make such bold statements really shows the extent of her igorance with regards to the PA profession as a whole.  It would behoove her and all of Canada if NP's and PA's worked together in a collegial relationship rather than an antagonistic one. I most certainly would and have let PA's take care of me before and have been nothing but pleased with the service and quality of health care that I have recieved.  Grow up Ms. Grinspun, PA's are here to stay.

I am a Canadian going to school in the USA to become a PA. It saddens me to read the nurses association stance of this great profession.  The CAPA and medical associations is behind the PA profession.  CAPA's issue is a lack of quality of health care and access to health care and PAs can provide Canadian health care with increased patient access to quality patient care.  As for the article from my experience so far some of the things the RNAO said were incorrect as to what a PA can do in the USA.  PAs would not have to discuss with a nurse the next step of treatment, and changes in the patients conditions PAs may call upon several colleagues to ensure a patient's treatment options is the best option for a patient. As for training a PA has 24-28 months specific course with about 14 months laboratory and medical coursework with clinical rotations.  PA education is vigorous and condensed medical school.  We need to recall the greater goal-- increasing patients'access to quality health care.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

See these comments for what the are- politically driven.  Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

I've had a lot of experience with PAs and considered going to PA school. Grinspun should comprehend it is often times as difficult if not more difficult to graduate PA school than med school.  An overwhelming surge of students who do not want to spend years in med school and view PA school as the "easier" option. This is furthest from the truth.  The school I viwed (OU) the requirements were essentially the same, and there were much less seats.  The schools require a ton of previous patient care and medical experience: (EMT, nurse, etc etc).  

BSNs becoming a MSN, NP require a BSN, which is available at these nursing schools have an LPN to BSN in only a year and about four years. Subsequently nursing schools distance NP programs their is a large nursing schools in Texas which you only attend NP programs a few days per week. I know they require some nursing experience, but nurses go through NP programs rather than living upon student loans.

I've been a PA for 23 years and it seems as though the ole hatreds are apparently on the rise once again.  I admit that it took me many years to accept NP's as colleagues because I did not feel that their education regarding clinical medicine was particularly good.  However, we all know that it is the experience one gains through actual practice that improves us as clinicians and not the "degreeness" behind our names.  I consider myself an excellent PA because of my experience and the fact that I actually care about the patients I see.  If Ms. Grinspun doesn't want herself or others she knows to be evaluated by a PA, then fine, everyone has that right.  Personally I would feel fine with being seen by a PA or an NP.  It's amazing how individual discriminations fade away when you open your eyes!!!

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

I would gladly debate Ms. Grinspun in any area of medical knowledge that PA's are accustomed to treating.  After being through PA school in the United States, I've come to meet patients that are usually glad to see me on my student clinical rotations, and say with gratitude how happy they are to see younger people continuing on with medical training.  (I'm actually 31 and not that young).  What Ms. Grinspun fails to recognize as that I, like most PA's have previous medical experience and patient care experience.. something most med students do not have when entering clinicals.  The rest of becoming a good provider is experience and continuing to learn beyond school.  I also know as a PA student what is outside "my scope of practice" and when to seek help from a supervising physician.  I imagine as I gain experience over years, I'll have more autonomy and privledges as I gain my supervising physician's trust and develop skills.. Isn't this how doctors and RN's get better in their careers?  Experience and continuing education for all practicioners?

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

We need the quality health care, but let's not get blindsided without facts. The only reason Canadian nurses are "concerned" is that they worry about their own job security. What if they are "completely replaced" with Canadian PAs, who follow the more cost-effective medical model of care? Nurses making assessment and medication errors kill more people than any other healthcare staff.  The reason there is always a "nursing shortage" despite wait lists for nursing programs is because anyone with any brains actually leaves the job after they begin working in the field. Shame on these nursing unions and nurses for always putting themselves first. They always want more money.

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

An NP was my contact at small clinic when I was obtaining my MPH and she was very good, many of the docs deferred to her.  When I was training as a PA there was an NP student in small lecture/discussion on PE's and I was amazed at how little  medical knowledge she had at that time in her training.  Having been in the real world for some time now I can see no difference between the two professions; especially after each have been in practice for awhile.  I do not know what NP's are taught in school.  Maybe they learn to knit but in my experience they are fine practitioners, indistinguishable from PA's and not only would I recommend them to my family my wife saw one before we moved.  For the most part the vast majority of both professions are capable, caring, dedicated medical providers that provide high quality medical care.  All else is misinformation, ignorance or possibly, in some cases, a lack of the willingness to change perspective.

It is sad that some nurses continue this turf war when in fact they continue to compare apples with oranges.  It is commonly known that  nurses are trained on the "nursing" model while PA's have always been trained on the "medical" model.  Over 28 years in clinical practice I have consistently received overwelming appreciation from my patients.  Let us never forget after all, our presence is justified by patient need.  The proof is in the pudding. 40 years of PA practice (and counting)

Truely a money making proposition for acadamic insitutions.  Perhaps if they offered a Doctorate with a medical concentration that requires medical rotations instead of classes dealing with the  unreal world of nursing idealism, it maybe actually benefit our patients and make us better clinicians.  

I have precepted 3 doctorate students who are 1 yr away from graduation and have VERY limited medical knowledge.    I reviewed the doctorate  curriculum and found it amusing that there were so many "NURSING classes" with little or no emphasis on medicine.  

Also, for those of us who do not have hospital reimbursement and  working to serve the underprivledged or at a family practice office, we cannot afford to go back to school again just to be called doctor.  

An MD does have more starting autonomy than a PA, but refers patients when he/she gets in over their head.  I know many family practice MDs which refer patients to specialist PAs.  I know many family practice PAs which refer patients to specialist MDs.  Not one member of the medical community should be working with full autonomy.  Health care providers should work as a team for a patients' best interest.  

It is sad that RNs would feel that way about valuable PA colleagues. I wonder what she thinks about NPs? I doubt that she views them favorably either. The reality is that PAs and NPs are indistinquishable within a short period of practicing. They are both nonphysician medical practitioners who perform the same job. The delineation between training is truly overstated. For instance, some NP specialty programs consists of extended specialty attending training and classes are provided by medical school professors. The real distinction  between these providers exist in the integrity of the individual practitioner to continually increase expertise in their field to better enable to provide the highest quality patient care. Some meet this mark; others do not. Much like our physician colleagues.

The reality is that both PAs and NPs are best viewed as synonymous. I hope that Ms. Grinspun, RN will allow herself the opportunity to discover the positive impact that PAs are sure to bring to the Canadian health care system.

It is sad that some nurses continue this turf war when in fact they continue to compare apples with oranges.  It is commonly known that  nurses are trained on the "nursing" model while PA's have always been trained on the "medical" model.  Over 28 years in clinical practice I have consistently received overwelming appreciation from my patients.  Let us never forget after all, our presence is justified by patient need.  The proof is in the pudding. 40 years of PA practice (and counting)

In the vast majority of cases, patients have the greatest respect towards PAs. It is unfortunate that the same does not necessarily hold true within the health care disciplines. Turf wars and empire building have no place in health care, but how to effectively stop these decades old issues is illusive - apparently. Putting patients first has taken a backseat to who's on first. Health care providers who take part in these 'exercises', need to take a step backward and think about the damage these constant battles do to patient care and colleagues. Maybe the term health care provider needs to be re-assessed.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven. Ms Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

Nurses have been working in the advanced scope in Canada's north for over 20 years.  This new-found zeal to bring back the PA has more to do with control and politics than providing good care.  I am sure that PAs are well-qualified to do the job they perform, but what I find most interesting is the locus of control remains with the physician.  NPs are autonomous.  We do not need permission from a physician before we provide care.  We maintain our licensure and our own liability for our practice.  I am quite sure this is the impetus behind the sudden re-surgence of PAs in Canada, and I believe the powerful lobbying pressures of the various provinical medical associations are directly responsible for this.  Physicians are more likely to embrace the concept of team-based care as long as they are the head of the team.

Nurses have been working in the advanced scope in Canada's north for over 20 years.  This new-found zeal to bring back the PA has more to do with control and politics than providing good care.  I am sure that PAs are well-qualified to do the job they perform, but what I find most interesting is the locus of control remains with the physician.  NPs are autonomous.  We do not need permission from a physician before we provide care.  We maintain our licensure and our own liability for our practice.  I am quite sure this is the impetus behind the sudden re-surgence of PAs in Canada, and I believe the powerful lobbying pressures of the various provinical medical associations are directly responsible for this.  Physicians are more likely to embrace the concept of team-based care as long as they are the head of the team.

See these comments for what the are- politically driven. Ms Grinspun would be best served by educating herself on the profession before bashing it. Canadian PAs will go through their growing pains, hopefully they will get all the support they need from their southern neighbors...

With a first hand knowledge of PAs, it is a shame RNAO would attempt to bash them.  PAs are trained in the same medical school model.  A colleague states the medical field is one of teamwork and each designation PA and MD has a role in health care is vital for the benefit of a patient.  I will continue to respect PAs and trust their medical judgement.  It is not easy to become a PA.  The training is vigorous and demanding.  I believe for the benefit of RNAO nurses which RNAO "advocates" and the PAs who have been so shamelessly insulted, Grinspun needs to resign.

As long as all the licensing and scope of practice were clearly defined as to satisfy the institutions, why not?  In a society where our needs, aging people, are far outweighing our resources, we cannot afford to be overly territorial. The fact is that each profession - nurses, PAs, and MDs consist the health care system. We must work as a multiinterdisciplinary team in order to navigate the health care crisis and staffing maldistribution of health care providers.

PA's have been in Canada for greater than 20 years within the military. They have and continue to provide top notch care to our service personnel.  You can bet in the USA if this was not a proven profession they would not exist today. That in itself speaks volumes.  

Ontario reports PAs are decreasing wait times and the number of patients who leave without being seen.  No matter what professional designation you may have, the ultimate goal is to provide quality patient care.

PA's have been in Canada for greater than 20 years within the military. They have and continue to provide top notch care to our service personnel.  You can bet in the USA if this was not a proven profession they would not exist today. That in itself speaks volumes. %0d%0a%0d%0aOntario reports PAs are decreasing wait times and the number of patients who leave without being seen.  No matter what professional designation you may have, the ultimate goal is to provide quality patient care.

First, there are huge differences between health care as it exists in the US and in Canada. PAs are well recognized in the American system. The accredited schools produce not many graduates every year. The PA profession is in high demand in the markets and PAs are respected members of health care teams.

In Canada, the profession up until 2002 only existed in the military. Manitoba was the first province to implement PAs and are underway in establishing a training program - one of only a few in the entire country. So for those of you worried that all of Canadian health care is going to be overrun by Canadian PAs, take a step back and a deep breath and realize that there aren't many graduates.  There have been very few derogatory statements about nurses from the PAs - they have come from other sources. Nurses are vital to Canadian healthcare and deserve a big voice in how Canadian healthcare is run.  So yes, nurses are vital. But they are not the only ones capable of providing good patient care.

The point is that there is room for everyone at the table here. The goal is making for better access for patients and better patient outcomes. There is a good case to help Canadian PAs which has been successful in the USA. There is no reason to think that all groups can't work together - but degenerate a turf war then all bets are off.  It's not about any one group "winning". The winners need to be Canadians.

The same old drivel, new day/new country! I will never understand the seeming egomania and delusions of granduer that nursing exhibit towards PA's. Do we as a profession make such attacks? It's sad that she would expend such venom towards an attempt to improve healthcare in her country. I'm sure NP's have been there for some time and have obviously not been able to meet the need. I suppose in her mind no care is better than PA care. Another illiterate attempt and deception and turf protection.