Bunched or Retroflex? Which /r/ You?

Maybe I'm a bit crazy, but I think when I make an /r/ I have a  combined technique.  I feel the back of my tongue rise up with the sides touching my back molars (bunched) & also the tip is curled up as well (retro flex).  When i try to peek in, it looks like a few drops of water could pool in the bowl it makes.  Can this be right?  I'm just in my 2nd year of speeching.

In addition to PROMPT training, Pam Marshalla's book is invaluable. I don't know what I'd do without it. I've had nothing but success with /r/ kids using Pam's techniques along with PROMPT as appropriate.

Don't forget Pam Marshalla's wonderful book on Lateral Lisps and /R/ - I learned a few tricks in there - the /l/ sound behind the alveolar ridge then progressively moving the tongue tip back toward the rear of the mouth (mentioned above) and my personal favorite - lightly biting the edges of your tongue and saying "ah" - it forces you into an /r/!

I also use the TUBS acronym (tight, up, back, and smile). Using dental floss, have the student hook it with their tongue tip and pull it into their mouth holding for a count of ten while saying /r/. Then try it without the floss. Reinforce how they have to smile to do this. I do it with them and use a mirror since it's a bit silly. Maybe they'll floss when they're done, too!

I was just discussing teaching /r/ with my supervisor a few days ago, so this is timely!  I commented that while I can make a retroflex /r/, I usually speak with a bunched /r/.  She said that she has had better luck teaching the kids the retroflex /r/ by teaching them to say "la" and moving the tongue progressively farther back until it turns into /r/.  She has had a lot of kids in the past who couldn't learn to produce a bunched /r/.

Here's a helpful blog that talks about teaching the R sound:

http://www.playingwithwords365.com/2011/10/my-tricks-to-teaching-the-r-sound/

I can frequently get the [r] from an "sh" or to get the bunched [r] go from [k].  Some children have to lay on their backs on the floor at first and let gravity help.

I never have luck with carryover of the retroflexed /r/.  I always teach the bunched /r/.  Sometimes we go from eagree to get that position.

My school clinical supervisor in grad school taught me this trick...I always tell my kids their tongues have to be three things to make the /r/ sound: 1) up 2) back 3) fat.  "fat" meaning the back sides of their tongues have to touch the top back sides of their teeth.  I try to watch their tongues to figure out where they're going wrong.  I start with trying to elicit the /er/ sound and move from there into working into /r/ in initial position.  It has worked with everyone from kindergarten to eighth graders for me so far and my supervisor claims she has "never failed" with a student.  

 Is the Say It Right /R/ a good program to use?

   Thanks!

Quickie definition - anyone else can chime in and clarify!

1) Bunched /r/ - tongue up in the back of the mouth in a bunch (I learned it as "humped" /r/ back in the day).

2) Retroflex /r/ - tip of tongue is lifted and curled towards the back of the mouth.

I also have a few "r" kiddos on caseload that cannot get the "r" no matter what strategy I have used. That is frustrating for both of us! In general, I use whatever works best for each student. I have taught the retroflex "r" and the bunched tongue (I can do both also). The disadvantage to the retroflex "r" is that they often get a little "l" inflection as the tongue flips down to the vowel position. I am always open to new strategies that I can put into my bag of trick so hopefully we will get a few new posts to this blog.

Strategies that I have used:

1. start with the "l", then move the tongue tip back a little further on each trial until it gets back to the retroflex "r" position

2. put a straw, craft stick or tongue depressor horizontally in the mouth and bite down (with it back on the molars). Have them put their tongue above the stcik and try the bunched "r" that way

3. make a wide" tongue bowl" and then try to raise that up into the "r" position

Hope that any of these help.

Please define the "retroflex r" and bunched r".

The 'r' sound is a thorn when you can't hear the differnce and we all wait the  the child to "get" it and then repeat it!