Hi Richard,

 I certainly understand that you are upset with the inability to secure a position in a hospital or reference clinical lab. In the Chicago area I know that MLTs are hired with quite a bit of regularity. To be sure I have seen MLTs who can run circles around MTs, but MTs have more  (more specialized if not greater) education. But if you are so inclined, and can move, look into the Chicago area labs, I am sure you can find a position. But line one up before you move!

 That being said: I dont view a preference to hiring MTs over MLTs or an ASCP certified over AMT (or other certification) as being discriminatory or unfair. With an ASCP certified MT you have a pretty good idea of what a person (who holds that certification) knows, at a minimum.  I have worked with several AMT certified personel and I hate to say it, but they have not impressed me. It seems to me that you know how to improve your position; take the ASCP exam. The reason for the bias is that most of the hiring managers are intelligent enough to not believe in the "warm body theory", and hire a known quality over an unknown.

 Kudos to you for expanding your education, I expect that you keep up the good/hard work! I respect that you are trying to improve your knowledge base, but you should be very aware that not all colleges are the same when it comes to getting respect with the degree, who certifies your college? That does matter, again a known quality over an unknown.

 Richard I certainly hope the very best for you!

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Glenn George PhD MT (ASCP)

Listen...many of you have faulty resoning behind why you believe that you should make more money.  It is all about supply and demand, peiod.  If you work in a specialty area, you will make more (ie. tissue typin, flow cemistry, etc).  However, even the almighty MT will not step into this role role without advanced training and/or experience.  I am a laboratory manager, and I am "technically" only an MLT(ASCP).  I have met many MTs that do no have the knowledge I possess, or can run any instrument like I can and have.  The simple thought that you should make more money that someone who has less education that you is obsurd, and is what is wrong with our country.  Education should not equate earning...work ethic, professional experience, dependablity and loyalty should.  Someone standing next to you in the lab, doing the same job you do, aside from specialty jobs, no matter what their education, should make comprable earnings...bottom line.  So, lab managers should hire more MLTs because they are easier to work with, and do not have chips on their shoulders; not to mention they don't demand "premadonna" salaries.

Oh Wow, this shows how much clinical laboratorians need an upgrade in salaries. Hell, Federal minimum wage will catch up with our salaries soon.

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Richard Covington

 I apply online in diff hospitals in US but most require ASCP certified and it is somewhat upsetting that we get registered by AMT and AMT certs are not accepted esp. international candidates like me.

Oh Wow, this shows how much clinical laboratorians need an upgrade in salaries. Hell, Federal minimum wage will catch up with our salaries soon.

 I agree with you Richard we are underpaid, from the phleb to the lab manager.

 

 

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Glenn George PhD MT (ASCP)

Greg,

If it was only supply and demand why do so many lab workers work 2-3 jobs? If the jobs paid better I am sure that they would only work one.

If education does not matter and should not make a difference for pay, why do we have CLIA88 or any entry educational requirement? I think that many MLTs have the chip, not the MTs, I truly believe that their less extensive education makes them feel inferior to the tech who has more education (not that they are less able or should feel inferior). Typically some one who devotes the time effort and money to more education (say a BS degree versus an AS degree) will have a greater work ethic and greater "professional experience" (they have significantly more educational experience then a person with and AS degree at first job experience),

When it comes to people doing the same jobs for the same money, I would agree to that, but the greater educational background of the MT means that they have more to offer the company. MLTs dont have that greater background and cannot offer it to the employer, therefore while much of the day to day and hour to hour work is the same, it is not the same job. Perhaps we need a more defined line between an MT and and MLT.

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Glenn George PhD MT (ASCP)

Hi There George,

 

It’s great to hear from you. Thanks for the tip on looking for work in Chi-town. Congrats on your most impressive credentials and status in the medical clinical laboratory. George, I feel that there is too much concentration on what certification a candidate has or where he/she went to school. Obtaining certification with any of these national certification agencies is not an easy task. One just can’t go and take the AMT mlt certification examination without fulfilling the education/experience criteria. Once one fulfills these criteria he/she must study vigorously to pass the certification exam. You mentioned that you were not impressed with AMT laboratorians as much as you’re impressed with ASCP laboratorians.

 

Instead of thinking in that fashion why don’t you and other lab managers hire and train certified candidates regardless of what national certification agency they represent? Take them under your wing like your predecessor did you. Let’s decrease the shortage of mlt’s & MT’s. Let’s stop being so judgmental and selfish. Let’s help one another. As I stated before some lab managers are too judgmental and lack the interest/mentality that’s needed to dampen the shortage of medical clinical laboratorians. Decreasing the shortage increases the quality of patient care. Also, it makes for better working conditions. Some laboratorians would love to work 8hrs a day, 40hrs a week and go home. Instead, laboratorians have to work 12hrs shifts to compensate for the shortage. This is terrible. 12hrs on your feet is no joke. Decreasing the shortage will decrease work stress. Laboratorians can work regular 8hr days/ 40hrs per week and spend more time with their family or have more leisure time for one’s self.

 

Lab managers must develop effective leadership skills. This means that they must master the concept of communication competency. Improve the working conditions of your staff by keeping you lab fully staffed. Hire and train certified entry level mlt’s/MT’s regardless of what national certification agency they represent. Help them develop skills and become proficient as you were given a chance to do. In this way you will be making a conscious effort to strengthen the medical clinical laboratory. In this way, you will be a true leader and set a path for others to follow. Jesus wants us to truly help one another, as he laid his life down for all of us.

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Richard Covington

Hi There Stacy,

You have the spirit and vision that's needed to attract up and coming laboratorians. If other MT's thought like you I probably wouldn't be unemployed right now. You are certainly an inspiration to up and coming laboratorians. A lot of lab managers are MT's. Because I'm AMT Certified with no lab experience, with the exception of phlebotomy lab managers kick me to the curb. Mitigating factors, is that I've trained many medical technology students during their phlebotomy rotation. Some of them didn't even possess the dexterity to do phlebotomy. As a phlebotomy instructor I was determined to make sure that these students were able to palpate and locate veins. I had patience with them. I showed them how to develop their skills on real patients. Some patients complained. I explained to the patients in a courteous way that these are the up and coming laboratorians. A lot of the student went on to become MT's. To have lab managers slam door after door in my face is a force to reckon with.

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Richard Covington

Hi Richard,

I always enjoy an active discourse with you!

I think the reason so many managers will accept the ASCP certification is that the person with it is a "known" variable in terms of their knowledge base. It is expensive to hire and train a person. I am all for investing in the staff, but I need to know before I hire them that they will have the basic knowledge to fill my need from an employee. I do not understand why so many people refuse to take another test that they know will help them. It seems to me that if you are certified by AMT and feel that what is holding you back is not having the ASCP credential, then you should go out and get the credential. Lab manager just cannot justify the cost associated with a person who they do not know has the abilities they know.

This situation reminds me of a potential student I know, who did poorly on her GRE exam but wanted to get into a PhD program. Her transcripts and recommendations inicated that she would do ok, but her GRE indicated otherwise. I advised her to gain some research experience (even just volunteering) and to retake the GRE. She refused to take the GRE again and as of yet (about 3 years later) has not gained entry into a program. If you know what you need to get where you want, but will not take the necessary actions to obtain it, then I do not understand why you would complain.

Laboratorians all need to become more of a "go getter" type then the "victim" type. I am a firm believer in the idea that you make your own destiny.

Richard, I know that you could pass that test, but I dont understand why you refuse to take it. Yes, maybe AMT should be good enough when combined with your educational background, but if it is holding you back...fix it! It saddens me that someone with such a zeal for the clinical lab, has such a hard time finding work.

I wish you nothing but the best!

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Glenn George PhD MT (ASCP)

Well Glen, I guess that we'll never come together with the notion, that if one has a national certification, hire and train them, regardless. I don't need to acquire an ASCP Certification. I need for lab managers to respect my AMT Certification and hire and train me. Lab managers who think in your fashion lack the required leadership/mentality needed to reduce the shortage of medical clinical laboratorians and make for better working conditions for current overworked laboratorians. Your worried about the expense of hiring and training AMT Certified mlt's but hiring and training them is exactly what you are supposed to do, if you truly support the growth and stability of this industry. ASCP certified mlt applicants require training also. Lets stop the selfishness. You can never be a true leader if your going to use discriminatory tactics in your hiring preferences. This is exactly what your doing when your telling me to acquire ASCP certification. You are weakening the industry with your way of thinking. National Certification is National Certification, period. I stand by AMT because they are truly doing something to try and reduce the shortage of mlt's/MT's. We need more AMT Certified lab managers. AMT represents mlt's/MT's, not pathologist! Instead of acquiring an ASCP certification I would go in to another industry. I struggled hard to acquire my AMT certification and I'm proud of it. I hope that I didn't offend you for this is not my intention.

 

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Richard Covington

Richard,

I am truly sorry to hear you say this. Sounds to me like you are unwilling to do what you know will help your career in this field. I wish you the very best.

Good luck, with your stubborness, you are likely to need it.

 

 

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Glenn George PhD MT (ASCP)

Not stubborness, Glen. It's effective leadership that I elaborated to you. Your conditioned with favortism, bias and selfishness. This industry suffers from mind sets such as yours. If you're a Christian then your under the arms of Jesus Christ. Jesus accepts anyone who accepts him. This is the mind set that lab managers need. Glen, obtain some continuing education courses in EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP SKILLS DEVELOPMENT. Once you master and employ these skills in your work ethnic you will then become the lab manager that this industry needs. Oh, by the way, have a great safe very Merry Christmas.

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Richard Covington

Hi  GregK  , listen I understand how many of you feel..  There should be equal pay for equal knowledge, whether it is learned on the job or in a classroom..  But, as a lab manager , you should know more than most that CLIA 88 regulations prohibits MLT's from performing assays designated "High complexity testing".. without the direct supervision from an MT..   There are many cases in health care where , a nurse might know more about a procedure than a newly trained physician or a pharmacy technician might have to explain proper compounding techniques of a particular drug to a licensed pharmacist..  But these guidelines were put in place for a reason..  And usually it's a LEGAL...

These rules are put in place because eventually "the buck stops" with someone if there is BIG mistake..  CAP inspectors have now put more responsibility on individual Medical Technologist , instead of lab managers and supervisors, especially in areas like  molecular genetics, immunogenetics, virology, and in vitro fertilization laboratories.....  Medical Technologist have "officially" had clinical rotations in these areas and it is documented...     So in conclusion, if a faulty lab report makes it's way to a court of law....  THE LAW , takes more education a lot more serious than all of us....

hello Richard, I am ASCP certified MLT n looking 4 the job. I also have the AMT MLT bt with that i had lot of difficulty for job. and now with the Ascp also i m having very hard time.

what  i want to ask u is how  should i approach 4 the job....do u have any good pointers? its almost one month bt t still do not have any good responces... 

Hi all!  I just read all of the posts on this subject, and wanted to comment.  As a 25+ yr veteran of the lab, I've seen all sorts of changes come and go, so it's interesting to me that this subject still gets so many varied responses!  When I trained, an MLT was sort of like an LPN in nursing terms and an MT was similar to an RN.  ASCP was the hallmark by which all other certifications were measured, but AMT and HEW were also acceptable.   Starting salaries were about 2/3 of a nures's starting salary, and MLT's made about 3/4 of an MT's salary.  Then CLIA came along, and basically said that if you had a high school education and the approval of the pathologist, and had been working in the lab prior to CLIA, you could be "grandfathered" in, and everything else got thrown out the window!  Since then, it's pretty much been up to each individual state, hospital, accreditiding agency, lab manager, and CEO as far as I can tell!  I have a double BS (Biology & Med Tech), a year's grad school (Immunology & Microbiology), and ASCP-MT Certification, and there have been times when I've worked through temp agencies because jobs were scarce.  Luckily, for the past 18 yrs, I've had steady employment, but I thank God every day for that!  And if I had to sit for another exam, such as a state one, I would look for another profession!  :)