PT Talk: Forums

Re: Salaries

ron456 — Fri, 15 May 2009 19:38:40 GMT

I don't like the idea of enrolling in DPT just because APTA requires it. It will not guarantee direct access or increased reimbursement. It's like speculating that our pay or reimbursements will get higher just because we added a DPT. In addition, the cost of getting one is just too much. If you're employer is paying for it, then, good for you. Not everyone's working for someone who could pay for a DPT. Furthermore, if I will spend $20k plus to be called a doctor, I'll just enroll abroad and become a medical doctor. That's about the same amount necessary to graduate as a MD abroad. There might be a fulfillment in becoming a DPT, but I don't think it's worth the money and time invested. I'd rather be a MD with more authority. Like I said, having a DPT will not guarantee direct access. I think APTA is just speculating. Like in real estate. Look what happened to our economy? People speculated in real estate. I just can't wait to see how this will end.

Re: I think the DPT is great!

Kevin — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:14:31 GMT

I think it is all crazy. Lets state the facts. The DPT program is 3 years of Physical Therapy education. You must have a Bachelors in order to enter this program. In what you say??? Who cares as long as meet the pre reqs right. I have met people in the DPT program with a Bachelors in English or Liberal Studies, thats cool. So you and the APTA are telling me that the kid who just went to school for english then DPT has more experience then someone who has a Masters in PT...(5 years) or even a Bachelors..(4 years). Last time I checked 4 and 5 were more than 3. PTAs attend school for 2 years. All of these numbers just dont add up. Maybe someone can help me understand.

Re: Only advanced DPT worth anything

CJR7878 — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:01:50 GMT

Where are you studying to obtain your tDPT?

Re: Only advanced DPT worth anything

Susan Davis — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:28:15 GMT

I think this is an interesting discussion in seeing what a lot of people think of these issues. I have my master's degree in PT and some years experience. I want to continue to learn and advance my skills and knowledge. I recently looked at the doctorate programs that are currently available and am kind of disappointed. I don't want a superficial degree. I actually want to learn advanced skills that I can use in practice. A lot of the programs have a significant portion online which makes me think the degree is just about going through the motions and paying up. I don't even know if I should pursue it at this point since the profession seems to be a mess right now. I definitely agree with some of the posts about how the cost of the education required and the financial payout do not match. I think its great that a lot of PTs, including myself, want to further their education and skills to improve patient care and outcomes with the hope that it will benefit them as well. However, it doesn't seem that any increase in PT salaries is even possible due to cutbacks in reimbursement and limitations on the number of visits allowed. I don't even know what universal healthcare would mean for the profession which seems inevitable in the near future. Are PTs overqualified for the actual job? Maybe I should have become an orthopedic doctor instead. I think a lot of people went into the profession with good intentions of making a positive difference doing what they enjoy (working with people, working in the health/fitness industry, etc). PTs chose to go into physical therapy for a reason rather than becoming "doctors". Entry level DPT as a requirement does seem kind of ridiculous. If I knew this when I started school, I probably would have chosen a more profitable profession in the medical field (although I like therapy, you do have to pay the bills and who wants to be overqualified and underpaid). I don't know if the APTA goals are realistic. PTs are already strapped for time and often have to delegate a lot of the care to assistants and aides because of the clinics caseload whether the PT likes it or not (and it does affect quality). It does seem like a lot of therapists are concerned about the letters after their name and their certifications and I haven't noticed any better outcomes or improved quality of care. There does seem to be an us versus them mentality concerning new DPTs and PTs with many years of experience. I am worried that although the DPT may increase knowledge and ambition, it may not actually make a difference in the clinic where time and money are limited. I don't see PT salary increasing much no matter what education we receive unless patients are willing to pay out of their own pocket to see a PT "doctor" or "specialist" with this or that certification (a lot of patients don't even realize that they are receiving a different level care from an aide versus a PT)...otherwise, where would the money come from? It will be very interesting to see what comes of the profession in the next 10-15 years.

Re: RE:DPT vs MSPT vs PT vs etc

Heidi Howard — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:34:39 GMT

Hi BJ,

I was searching for information to support creating a career ladder in the hospital I work for based on earning advanced degrees like the DPT. I submitted a wage increase proposal for attaining the DPT degree and was asked to provide information from other facilities that do monetarily recognize the DPT program. In your post, you stated that your health system increased the base salary of PT's with the DPT in mind. Would you be willing to share that information with me regarding pay differential. I don't necessarily need the pay scales, only the increased amount. I greatly appreciate any help you can provide me.

Thank you in advance for your time!

Heidi M. Howard, PT, DPT

Re: I think the DPT is great!

Nancy Tsai — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:24:23 GMT

I applaud you for your optimism and your passion towards advancing your degree to a DPT. If you are aiming to be the capable PCP you wish to become, check out the available programs that DO offer the same training as for a PCP. If you find one, please post it. As far as my research went for the schools in CA, there wasn't any current DPT program that offered the same caliber of education compared to a MD, who's the current PCP.

All the comments involved money, therefore the cost value ratio of the being a PT should be considered. Every career costs money to educate and differ on your choice as you negotiate your salary to dictate how long it takes to "break even" and even becoming profitable. The majority of the working class wants a steady check and has no concern of their productivity or practice of economics of what they do relates to what they make. This lack of awareness is the biggest missing element in the curriculum for all healthcare providers. Schools graduates practitioners that are just scrambling after scraps that insurance companies throws at us after reaping the bulk of premiums from their members.

If you want to make money, then negotiate for the most profitable reimbursement for your time and effort. School has not shown itself to be a high percentage yielding investment choice.

Re: Only advanced DPT worth anything

Night Sky — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:21:26 GMT

CK, you must have a gifted intellect. Everyone I've spoken to about the tDPT from various Programs say they found it very challenging; mostly due to concurrently working full-time, learning Research/writing skills, and doing hours of homework per week. No one has told me it's been a breeze, and having a large family, would increase the challenge.

Regarding the DScPT, I don't believe your Clinical skills would get any better than a tDPT unless you supplemented it with a Residency / Fellowship program. However, I do believe the DScPT would be a wise choice if you had some extra time and money as it would increase your job opportunities, particularly in fields of Education and Research.

Re: Only advanced DPT worth anything

CK — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:47:32 GMT

I applaud the PT profession in USA progress to a doctoring profession, making the doctorate the entry-ticket to PT practice. While in terms of knowledge and clinical skills, there may not be any different between the entry-level DPTs and the PTs with the entry-level bachelor's or master's in PT. Perhaps, entering the PT (DPT, that is) educational program after some years of diverse undergraduate studies does produce more mature and motivated graduates.

However, I feel the transitional DPT degree is quite redundant, although I understand this is modeled somewhat after pharmacy. I agree that the doctorate for BS or MS/MPT holders should be an advanced doctorate and the degree should differentiate these advanced, experienced clinicians from the new graduates. A DScPT or DPTSc degree would be more appropriate.

I'm in my last semester of the tDPT program. I think it's a matter of spending money 'buying' the degree cos the coursework doesn't demand much from you. In fact, I feel that I'm putting in less effort than when I was in the bachelor's program. Maybe the clinical experience and some other factors made it easier for me to breeze through the tDPT curriculum. Hey, it's an easy way to earn a 'Dr' title..... Anyway, I just don't feel challenged intellectually and academically. I'm already doing what the program advocates. Essentially, other than polishing my academic writing skills, I don't feel I've learned much. For this reason, I'm planning to pursue an advanced doctorate (PhD) next year.

What do other tDPT students or graduates think? Would love to hear from you.

Re: Salaries

Andy Nguyen — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 00:28:59 GMT

It's true that a DPT will make more than a MPT. My MPT was only 90 units and it seemed a lot, your DPT was crazy with 137 credits.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself do you like your job or not? Money will be there, it's nice to make more and all of us do but it doesn't pan out for DPT unfortunately. I will try to get my t-DPT for professionally and not more $$ because I know that my company will not pay more....

Re: I think the DPT is great!

Andy Nguyen — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 00:25:36 GMT

Hey Helen,

There is a t-DPT at AT Sill University in Mesa, AZ for $7600 for 10 classes, all online and you only have to show up for graduations. Each class is 6 wks; I will enroll next summer. I just got my MPT last year and looking forward to go to the next step.

Also, if you have your MPT, you don't het the PET scores.

Hope that information helps.

Andy

Re: RE:DPT vs MSPT vs PT vs etc

Night Sky — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 23:37:06 GMT

The tDPT is becoming a necessity. Payors and Referral sources will be looking for it --maybe not now, but definitely by APTA's goal of 2020. Was wondering where it's "published that experienced PT's will be grandfathered in"? I thought one of the driving forces for enrolling in tDPT programs was the very fact that no such designation would be grandfathered??

Salaries

David Robertson — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:37:44 GMT

I was wondering that as our profession is moving toward a doctoring profession will our salaries start to go up? I was told that after Pharmacy converted to the PharmD that thier salaries rose. I actually can make more as a personal trainer then I can as a doctor of physical therapy...One of my patients who is a nurse anesthetist makes 160,000 a year. He said that his program was 51 credit hours past a bachelors. My DPT program was 137 hours past a bachelors. In the end it will be nice to do what you enjoy doing but it does seem that salaries are abysmal for a clinical doctorate and not commensurate with the education.

learningdoc

RE:I think the DPT is great!

Jefferson Whinery — Tue, 08 May 2007 19:55:25 GMT

I think if you want to get a advanced degree that is great. I think if you think for one second that it will automatically get you more respect or pay, you are miss informed.

Have you taken a real look at the state of research in our field? I ran a search for all the articles related to back pain in the last 30 years in JOSPT, Journal of Man. and Phys. Therapautics (ACA), Spine, Arch.of Physical Med & Rehab., NEJM, Medline, PEDRO, and what limited access Physical Therapy gives to non-members. For every study that supports the use of manual therapy, of TENS for example, there are at least 2-3 studies that have shown no effect. When you look @ a study in NEJM, the cohort number is big, i.e., 200-500+. When you look @ JOSPT or PT, you have studies with 15-20 subjects, & they are all 20 yr old athletes for whatever school is close!

What about all this push to be educated in manual therapy? Did you read the article in the last issue of JOSPT (Apr 2007 vol37, Num 4 pp169-179)? That refutes that IF there even is coupled motion in the L spine, it is not reliable. This is a lit review.

Chiropractic has been on the 'outside' of traditional medicine, and shunned for there inappropriazteness and lack of clinical expertise for the level of care they provide. I read into this as they have too much responsilibity for their training. This is just my opinion, and I nkow there are great chiropracters in practice, so my apologies if they are reading this.

In summation, I feel if you want to be more, and be a 'point of entry' provider, you should go back to school and be a MD. If you want to better our profession, then why don't you try to provide some PROOF for what we do, what you do. If you have these 'wonderful' clinical skills which are superior to everyone else, do share please. So many PT's are willing to jump on the band wagon with out really thinking for themselves and being 'checked' by perr review that they are just rouges. The squeeky wheel get the most grease and( I feel) unfortunately it is this 'doctor' thing. Education? Great! Do it for the right reasons though, and the REAL betterment of OUR profession!

RE:Only advanced DPT worth anything

rachelward — Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:28:48 GMT

As a private practice clinician, I think it is imperative that we advance our degree. We have to show that we are educated enough to make good decisions for our patients as independent practitioners. We have to do this to compete for the primary care patients. After 20 years of practice I earmed my tDPT. I do think this establishes a higher standard and expectation from referral sources and patients. If PT's do not want to become independent, then it is not necessary.We can let physicians keep telling us how to treat our patients.

1year grad.

RE:DPT vs MSPT vs PT vs etc

bgerow1234 — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 03:10:25 GMT

That is too funny! The poor PTs with 20 years of experience can't physically hold down a full time job!?! I have 30 years of experience and work plenty. I get tuition reimbursement for almost half of my doctorate education. $20,000 for an entire graduate degree is not bad when you consider the average private university tuition is $40,000/year. It has been published that the experienced PTs will be grandfathered in without a DPT. We have recently done a salary survey in the health system I work for and the starting salary for PTs was increased with the DPT and master's degree graduates in mind. We do have a long way to go to recognize the effort and expense of the extra years though.

BJ Gerow, PT